Turkey Makes A Sales Pitch For Type 214 Submarines To Indonesia

This presentation by TKMS from 2014, shows the local Turkish content in the Type 214 submarines, which is substantial compared to the previous submarine construction projects.

6 years ago Indonesia was looking for new submarines to replace her old German Type 209 class boats. Turkey and South Korea were in competition to supply the new submarines.

That was odd, very odd since both nations can only construct German submarines under license but neither has a locally developed submarines design. In other words, Turkey and South Korea were offering newer German Type 209 class submarines to Indonesia, to replace her old German Type 209 class submarines. And Germany was not in the competition.

In December 2011 it was announced that Daewoo Shipbuilding had been awarded a contract, to build 3 submarines. The first submarine is scheduled for delivery later in this year.

Jane’s Navy International reports that in early 2017, a team from Gölcük Naval Shipyard and TKMS ,the company that created Type 209 and Type 214 submarines and  visited Indonesian Navy Headquarters.

In 2015, Gölcük Naval Shipyard commenced a 10 year programme, to build 6 Type 214, locally know as, Reis class submarines, for Turkish Navy. A contract with TKMS was signed in 2009. The first boat TCG Pirireis is expected to launch in 2019.

According to JNI, the Indonesian Navy has received an offer from Gölcük Shipyard to supply a variant of the Reis class submarine. The meetings and presentations on the Type 214 class in Jakarta will be followed by a visit of Indonesian naval officials to Gölcük Shipyard’s facilities, where they will observe construction work on TCG Pirireis. This visit is currently scheduled to take place from 7 to 12 May 2017, in parallel to the IDEF 2017 exhibition.

It will be interesting to see which side the Germans will take. South Korea could not win 6 years ago, without help and support from Germany. Both Turkey and South Korea have an ongoing Type 214 construction program both can and probably will compete again. The Indonesian submarine project will definitely interesting to watch.

977 Dae Jo Young In Istanbul

Korean KDX-2 class destroyer 977 Dae Jo Young docking at Istanbul port.

Korean KDX-2 class destroyer 977 Dae Jo Young docking at Istanbul port.

On 29 August 2013, the Korean KDX-II class destroyer 977 Dae Jo Young, arrived in Istanbul for a undefined port visit.

The ship is not a stranger in Istanbul as she was here before, in 2008 with the replenishment tanker 57 Chun Lee.

You’re Never Beaten Until You Admit It

“You’re never beaten until you admit it.” a beautiful and very true quote from General Patton.

Just when South Korea seemed to have won the bid for producing submarines for Indonesia, Turkish officials deny being defeated.

Indonesia, the world’s largest archipelago with more than 17,000 islands, lies across shipping lanes between the Indian and Pacific oceans as well as between Asia and Australia, heavily used for transporting commodities and energy. It the Indonesian Navy has two German Type 209 class submarines, INS Cakra and INS Nanggala both commissioned in 1981. Both boats have been refitted at least three times to keep them working. But as they near the end of their service life Indonesia seeks new submarines.

Indonesia is one of the oldest submarine operators in the South East Asia region and had submarines in commission since 1960s. Indonesia wants to boots its submarine fleet to 12 diesel-electric submarines by 2024. But financial realities will force the country to replace the existing boats with three submarines with AIP capability.

Indonesian government decided to replace the existing German submarines by newer German submarines. There are two competitors in the bid: Turkey and South Korea. Both Turkey and South Korea are using Type 209 class submarines in their own navies and both countries have the expertise to produces these type of submarines in their own shipyards with German material aid and assistance.

Certainly this is an interesting competition to watch. Usually each competitor would  offer their own unique product or solution in such procurement projects. But in this one (I do not recall any previous project) two different nations were offering the same product licensed to them by a third country.

Each bidder has some advantage the other does not posses: South Korea has upgraded the Indonesian submarines once between 2004 – 2006. Furthermore South Korea has good standing relations with Indonesian Navy. Indonesia bought LPD’s, LSTH’s and patrol boats from South Korea.

A Type 209/1400 class submarine of Turkish Navy

Turkey can transfer two submarines immediately, to keep Indonesian submarine force intact until the new boats are commissioned into Indonesian Navy. The  trump card Turkey holding is the official support of the original producer of the Type 209 submarines: The HDW shipyard.

On 11 October 2011, South Korean Daewoo Shipbuilding & Engineering said that it aimed to seal a $1.1 billion agreement with the Indonesian government by November to build three submarines. The South Korean shipbuilder said in a statement that this would mark the first exports of submarines from the country. “We have launched talks to sign a submarine contract with Indonesia’s defence ministry and marine,” Daewoo said in a statement.

Although the final details of the agreement are still being negotiated, it is certain that DSME will provide the Indonesian Navy with three indigenously developed 1,400-ton attack submarines. The Korea Times explains that the vessels, which will be built with technical assistance from Germany’s Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems group), will be powered by diesel-electric engines.

The submarines will measures 56 meters in length and 5.5 meters in width and are expected to be capable of reaching a depth of 250 meters and of remaining submerged for about two weeks. Crewed by 33 sailors, the vessels is planned to achieve a surface speed of 11 knots and 22 knots underwater.

As Arirang News reports, Daewoo prevailed as preferred bidder for this significant project over competitors from France, Germany and Russia. Although Indonesia is already operating two Cakra-class attack submarines of the HDW-developed Type 209 design, France and South Korea dominated the competition and entered the final round in June 2011.

Well at that time this news meant that Turkey has lost the race to South Korea. But “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”

Turkish procurement officials have denied a South Korean claim that the Korean Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine has defeated a joint bid by Germany and Turkey to sell submarines to the Indonesian Navy.

‘’We are constantly in touch with Indonesian authorities. Together with Germany, we will soon submit an offer outlining our final offer with very favorable conditions. Indonesia is waiting for that,’’ a procurement official told the Hürriyet Daily News recently on condition of anonymity.

‘’In addition, Germany’s Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft [HDW] is our full partner and is the builder of the HDW-class 209 submarines that Indonesia wants to buy. We don’t know how the South Koreans may overcome this license problem, because HDW is working with us,’’ the official said. ‘’For us, the competition is continuing.’’

Daewoo Shipbuilding & Engineering said earlier this month that it aimed to seal a $1.1 billion agreement with the Indonesian government by November to build three submarines. The South Korean shipbuilder said in a statement that this would mark the first exports of submarines from the country.

The emphasis is mine.

So the race is still on. Let the best licensee win.

A Close Look To A KDX-II Class (Part 2)

Here are some more photos of the South Korean KDX-II class destroyer DDG-979 Gang Gam Chan.

Mk 32 torpedo tubes. I did not noticed any reloads nearby.

Mk 141 launchers for RGM-84 Harpoon Block 1C missiles

Mk 45 127 mm/62 Mod 4 gun

Mk 41 Mod 2 VLS. The 32 cell VLS is loaded with a mix of SM-2MR (Block IIIA) SAM and ASROC VLS missiles

The KDX-2 class ships are the first ones in South Korean Navy with female accommodation.

DDG-979 Gang Gam Chan.

And at the end my favorite photo:

South Korean naval intelligence taking a photo of me, for their file about me.

Click here for A Close Look To A KDX-II Class (Part 1)

South Korean Warships In Istanbul; A Close Look To A KDX-2 Class.

Yesterday, a South Korean Naval Task Force consisting of the destroyer DDG-979 Gang Gam Chan and tanker AOR-57 Chun Jee arrived in Istanbul for a four day visit.

In every three year a South Korean task force visits Istanbul periodically where a Turkish warships visits South Korea. These are the photos of the South Korean visit from 2005. At that time it the destroyer DDG-975 Chungmugong Yi Sun-Shin and tanker AOR-57 Chun Jee were in Istanbul.

DDG-975 Chungmugong Yi Sun-Shin in 2005

AOR-57 Chun Jee in 2005

And these are the photos from the previous visit in 2008. DDG-977 Daejoyoung and AOR-57 Chun Jee were here.

AOR-57 Chun Jee in 2008

DDG-977 Daejoyoung in 2008

This year’s visit will also mark the 60th Ann,versary of the Korean War. The visit of the South Korean ships will also commemorate the Turkish participiation to the Korean War. There will be a banquet for the Korean War Veterans.

The KDX-2 is a South Korean design. The first ship was laid down in 2001 and the sixth ship was commissioned in 2008. The offensive armament consists of 8 Harpoon SSM missiles, SM-2MR (Block 3A) SAM missiles and V-ASROC ASW missiles and one Mk 45 127 mm/62 Mod 4 gun. For self defense the ships has a 21 cell RAM launcher and a Goalkeeper CIWS .

DDG-979 Gang Gam Chan

The MW08, G-band 3D target indication radar

The forward, STIR 240 fire-control radar

Navigation radar

The antenna for the SLQ-200(V)K SONATA electronic warfare system

The RIM-116 RAM missile launcher

The Goalkeeper CIWS

The Dagaie Mk 2 decoy launcher system

I don't know what this is. But I guess it must some kind of a torpedo counter measure launcher.

Click for A Close Look To A KDX-2 Class (Part 2)

Who Is Going To Sell Indonesia The German Submarines? Turkey or South Korea?

A Type 209 class submarine of Turkish Navy

Turkey and South Korea are in direct competition to sell Indonesia 209 Type 1400 class conventional submarines, designed by Germany.

This project might be a good example how globalization and dissemination of advanced ship building technologies shape the our world. Although never ever used by the German Navy, the Type 209 submarines are one of best post Second World War submarine designs made in Germany.

Both Turkey and South Korea are using Type 209 class submarines in their own navies and both countries have the expertise to produces these type of submarines in their own shipyards with German material aid and assistance.

Certainly this will be an interesting competition to watch as usually each competitor would  offer their own unique product or solution. I do not recall any previous defense procurement project where two different nations were offering the same product.

For further reading:
Turkey, Germany seek submarine sale of $1 bln
S. Korea close to clinching Indonesia submarine deal

>Akya, Turkish Heavy Weight Torpedo

>According to the latest Savunma ve Havacılık magazine a contract was signed between Turkish Naval Research Center Command (ARMERKOM), Tübitak, Roketsan and Undersecretariat for Defense Industries for developing and prototyping of a heavy weight torpedo. The value of the contract is 24 million euros.

ARMERKOM has the lead in designing the 533mm torpedo named Akya, after a local fish. Tübitak is developing the sonar where as Roketsan is working on the warhead and guidance. Roketsan has signed a memorandum of understanding with the South Korean company LIG Nex1 for developing a guidance and control system for the Akya. LIG Nex1 is the sole guided munitions producer in South Korea. Among its products are Blue Shark light weight torpedo and White Shark heavy weight torpedo. Both torpedoes are currently used by South Korean Navy. It was reported in January 2009 that South Korea was helping Turkey in developing an indigenous torpedo.

The Korean White Shark torpedo has a weight of 1.100 tons, 6 meters length, 30 km range and a 370kg warhead. If Akya should be based of White Shark then it specifications will be similar. The White Shark torpedo has only accosting homing and as it lacks any wire connection to the submarine it cannot be controlled once fired.

Turkish Navy may prefer a simple homing fire and forget torpedo for the first ever torpedo to be produced in Turkey as it is simpler to produce and integrate into the submarines and their command and control systems. But the main target is to develop and produce a wire guided torpedo integrated in the command and control systems.

>South Korea to share torpedo blue prints

>Turkey plans to acquire blue prints for a torpedo from South Korea says a recently published newspaper story.

The story itself has some obvious technical mistakes. It describes a wire guided heavy torpedo of 55km range and 50km speed, but names it as Blue Shark which is a light weight non-guided torpedo.

Despite that technical error the story is important. It clearly shows that Turkey’s interest in underwater sensor and weapons system in still in progress and there are foreign countries that are interested in cooperation in these areas. Commissioning of locally developed and produced would be strategic important for Turkish Navy. And acquiring the know-how could be a good start.

I am happy as I have predicted this development sometime ago.

>Visitors from a distant place


Two South Korean warships are in Istanbul for a official visit. Chun Lee 57 logistics support ship and Daejoyoung 977 a KDx-2 class destroyer
Escoorting them is one of the training ships of Turkish Navy A-597 TCG Cezayirli Gazi Hasan Paşa

According to the news these ships are on a training cruise. It seems that these sailors missed the big International Fleet Review back at home. The ships will leave on 24th October 2008.
In the last few years the military cooperation between to countries increased considerably. South Korean companies played a critical role in development of Fırtına self propelled howitzer. Fırtına is locally designed and produced but important key part are made of South Korea.
South Korea also plays a critical role for the indigenous Turkish National Main Battle Tank Project Altay.

Back in 2006, Turkey sold a simulator for CN-235 cargo planes used by South Korean Air Force.

This visit may be just a regular stop in the training cruise. This visit may also be a sales pitch. There are a couple ongoing naval projects in Turkey where a cooperation may be possible.
The development of a torpedo using Turkish sonar and signal processing units and components of South Korean Blue Shark is one of the few that comes to my mind.
%d bloggers like this: